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	<title>Comments on: How Does &#8216;Incremental&#8217; Define Apple?</title>
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		<title>By: whatever</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>whatever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-700</guid>
		<description>haha, thanks for the answer.
I knew they were born this way, poor machead&#039;ey fools addicted to their marketing and crappy products... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha, thanks for the answer.<br />
I knew they were born this way, poor machead&#8217;ey fools addicted to their marketing and crappy products&#8230; <img src='http://oddlytogether.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-699</guid>
		<description>wharever, I do see the technical side of the products - and the technology is not sufficiently compelling for the price premium. That&#039;s why I choose PC. Plus, I want my third-party hardware and software to actually run on my computer.

Why does Apple have a following? Same reason that Nike has one - smart marketing. All the factors you list are part of that (especially the Scientology mentality :-) ). That&#039;s not to say that either Macs or Nikes are bad products. Just overblown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wharever, I do see the technical side of the products &#8211; and the technology is not sufficiently compelling for the price premium. That&#8217;s why I choose PC. Plus, I want my third-party hardware and software to actually run on my computer.</p>
<p>Why does Apple have a following? Same reason that Nike has one &#8211; smart marketing. All the factors you list are part of that (especially the Scientology mentality <img src='http://oddlytogether.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ). That&#8217;s not to say that either Macs or Nikes are bad products. Just overblown.</p>
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		<title>By: billybob</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>billybob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-698</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t get too hung up about the link bait allegations.  There is a very fine line between writing good titles and link bait.

I was just pointing out that not having ads would not excuse you from link baiting, personally I don&#039;t even think it is a crime.  There is nothing wrong with getting links, it is the content of the message that counts.  Otherwise TMZ would have been accused of link baiting for breaking Michael Jackson&#039;s death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t get too hung up about the link bait allegations.  There is a very fine line between writing good titles and link bait.</p>
<p>I was just pointing out that not having ads would not excuse you from link baiting, personally I don&#8217;t even think it is a crime.  There is nothing wrong with getting links, it is the content of the message that counts.  Otherwise TMZ would have been accused of link baiting for breaking Michael Jackson&#8217;s death.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-697</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-697</guid>
		<description>Do I really seem like like a linkbaiter to you, billybob? I never intentionally link bait. Ever. That applied to Microsoft Watch, too. I write what I hope will offer a different perspective--that is interesting to read. I write titles/headlines that I find clever or interesting, and they often violate good search engine optimization practices.

Why? Because I assume that most of my readers come through RSS (site data confirms this). They&#039;re regular subscribers, like those getting (and paying for) newspapers or magazines. In that context, link baiting is a bad customer practice. I would rather have regular readers like yourself than linkbait for others. Sure, pageviews spiked more than usual for the one day. I don&#039;t want that kind of traffic.

I&#039;m considering changing blogging platforms, which will likely break all the incoming links anyway. I&#039;m not sure if I can carry comments forward either. I&#039;m still reading up on options. I&#039;ll blog on that soon as I figure out things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I really seem like like a linkbaiter to you, billybob? I never intentionally link bait. Ever. That applied to Microsoft Watch, too. I write what I hope will offer a different perspective&#8211;that is interesting to read. I write titles/headlines that I find clever or interesting, and they often violate good search engine optimization practices.</p>
<p>Why? Because I assume that most of my readers come through RSS (site data confirms this). They&#8217;re regular subscribers, like those getting (and paying for) newspapers or magazines. In that context, link baiting is a bad customer practice. I would rather have regular readers like yourself than linkbait for others. Sure, pageviews spiked more than usual for the one day. I don&#8217;t want that kind of traffic.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m considering changing blogging platforms, which will likely break all the incoming links anyway. I&#8217;m not sure if I can carry comments forward either. I&#8217;m still reading up on options. I&#8217;ll blog on that soon as I figure out things.</p>
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		<title>By: billybob</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-696</link>
		<dc:creator>billybob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-696</guid>
		<description>I doubt you are thanking me for that comment (even if it is partly true), please answer Chips in another post.

The problem I have with your reason for not judging Windows by the Windows community is that they are all internal and not objective.  The first 2 reasons are just based on your opinion, I can understand the 3rd but you have to remember that the Windows fanbois could not have attacked you about being fired from eWeek because at the time you were still working for them.  They only attacked you like that because they knew it would sting, like you stung them, don&#039;t feed the trolls.

I think most of the negative comments were related to the fact that you seemed to be demanding that Steve works more, even though you do not have any real authority to demand that and the fact that he is already making good recovery.  You have never made such comments about Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer, yet you got a similar amount of abuse and childish behaviour.  In that respect Windows fans are worse because it takes less for them to become uncivil.

I know they all came from the same place, but you still can&#039;t tell which ones were rabid Apple fans and which were moderate Apple users who were personally offended by your post.  It all raises the question of how do you become part of a community and how can you tell who is part of which community?

P.S. Link baiting is nothing to do with ad revenue, it is to do with links (hence the name link bait).  I bet you got hundreds of links to the post which is the goal of link bait.  Not having ads is no excuse for link bait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt you are thanking me for that comment (even if it is partly true), please answer Chips in another post.</p>
<p>The problem I have with your reason for not judging Windows by the Windows community is that they are all internal and not objective.  The first 2 reasons are just based on your opinion, I can understand the 3rd but you have to remember that the Windows fanbois could not have attacked you about being fired from eWeek because at the time you were still working for them.  They only attacked you like that because they knew it would sting, like you stung them, don&#8217;t feed the trolls.</p>
<p>I think most of the negative comments were related to the fact that you seemed to be demanding that Steve works more, even though you do not have any real authority to demand that and the fact that he is already making good recovery.  You have never made such comments about Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer, yet you got a similar amount of abuse and childish behaviour.  In that respect Windows fans are worse because it takes less for them to become uncivil.</p>
<p>I know they all came from the same place, but you still can&#8217;t tell which ones were rabid Apple fans and which were moderate Apple users who were personally offended by your post.  It all raises the question of how do you become part of a community and how can you tell who is part of which community?</p>
<p>P.S. Link baiting is nothing to do with ad revenue, it is to do with links (hence the name link bait).  I bet you got hundreds of links to the post which is the goal of link bait.  Not having ads is no excuse for link bait.</p>
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		<title>By: Wes</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>Wes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-695</guid>
		<description>You can make a long treasty on how Apple markets itself. It is actually almost evangelical (there are numerous parallels to cults), though it is unrelated to the technology. Apple is a very strong technological company, up in the leagues of Hewlett Packard, IBM and (yes!) Microsoft</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can make a long treasty on how Apple markets itself. It is actually almost evangelical (there are numerous parallels to cults), though it is unrelated to the technology. Apple is a very strong technological company, up in the leagues of Hewlett Packard, IBM and (yes!) Microsoft</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-694</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the response, billybob,

Actually people do look for products. Otherwise, why are product reviews so common? They do search to see what other people have written, too. That&#039;s one reason why companies like Amazon and Apple encourage user reviews. Another example: New tech site GDGT is really a recommendation engine.

I added the introduction because there was such depth of misunderstanding about tone. By the way, that was after the commenting died down. All this clearly started from John Gruber&#039;s post linking to mine and designating me his Jackass of the Week. Based on the traffic and comment pattern, most of the hostile commenters are most likely his regular readers. Hostile commenting stopped about three hours after his post, after it fell off the front page and presumably lower down the RSS list.

As for Microsoft Watch, there were nasty comments, too, as you point out. I had to argue with my bosses about keeping comments that called me a cunt or told me to fuck off. They stayed. I had a no censorship policy. Granted, I had no control over automatic spam filtering.

As for the difference in my reaction to the Mac community versus the Windows community negative comments. Three reasons:

1) I see the Mac community as more of a community. The older community, the people I assume read Daring Fireball, have clearly defined cultural characteristics.

2) I expect more from the Mac community than the Windows community, for many reasons that might be worth a separate blog post.

3) The remarks about losing my job at eWEEK stung some. I was laid off because I was too expense an employee and the company was shifting Microsoft news and analysis from the blog to the main eWEEK site. I could have stayed to write just news, by agreeing to a 36% pay cut. Instead, I accepted the layoff. I chose to preserve whatever brand I had built up around by blogging. Also, I felt that based on my personal limitations that I couldn&#039;t put the kind of heart into the extra volume of work eWEEK needed for so much less salary; it would have been unfair to my bosses. Had eWEEK chosen to let me continue Apple Watch and Microsoft Watch, I probably would have accepted the pay cut. I was never fired.

Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the response, billybob,</p>
<p>Actually people do look for products. Otherwise, why are product reviews so common? They do search to see what other people have written, too. That&#8217;s one reason why companies like Amazon and Apple encourage user reviews. Another example: New tech site GDGT is really a recommendation engine.</p>
<p>I added the introduction because there was such depth of misunderstanding about tone. By the way, that was after the commenting died down. All this clearly started from John Gruber&#8217;s post linking to mine and designating me his Jackass of the Week. Based on the traffic and comment pattern, most of the hostile commenters are most likely his regular readers. Hostile commenting stopped about three hours after his post, after it fell off the front page and presumably lower down the RSS list.</p>
<p>As for Microsoft Watch, there were nasty comments, too, as you point out. I had to argue with my bosses about keeping comments that called me a cunt or told me to fuck off. They stayed. I had a no censorship policy. Granted, I had no control over automatic spam filtering.</p>
<p>As for the difference in my reaction to the Mac community versus the Windows community negative comments. Three reasons:</p>
<p>1) I see the Mac community as more of a community. The older community, the people I assume read Daring Fireball, have clearly defined cultural characteristics.</p>
<p>2) I expect more from the Mac community than the Windows community, for many reasons that might be worth a separate blog post.</p>
<p>3) The remarks about losing my job at eWEEK stung some. I was laid off because I was too expense an employee and the company was shifting Microsoft news and analysis from the blog to the main eWEEK site. I could have stayed to write just news, by agreeing to a 36% pay cut. Instead, I accepted the layoff. I chose to preserve whatever brand I had built up around by blogging. Also, I felt that based on my personal limitations that I couldn&#8217;t put the kind of heart into the extra volume of work eWEEK needed for so much less salary; it would have been unfair to my bosses. Had eWEEK chosen to let me continue Apple Watch and Microsoft Watch, I probably would have accepted the pay cut. I was never fired.</p>
<p>Joe</p>
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		<title>By: billybob</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-693</link>
		<dc:creator>billybob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-693</guid>
		<description>When you buy a car do you check out what the drivers (aka community) are like on forums and blogs?  I wonder what the difference is with computer hardware?

Joe, do you not remember the &#039;Windows community&#039; swarming the Microsoft Watch site with inflammatory and junk comments, they were all using fake and random names, even resorting to impersonating other users.  Did that make you think twice about installing Windows 7?

Is it only people who insult you, or is it people that act childish and loud?  I expect that all products and software have their devoted fans who are childish.  The difference was that you seemed to attack their weakened leader so you probably sparked some extra venom.  I think you agree or you wouldn&#039;t have amended the post.

Dave, I think &gt; 2 links gets filtered.  Maybe because you use a link in your name, that probably counts as your link so anything in the post will get deleted/filtered.  Also, adding a website to your name might make the spam filter act differently for you since I expect 100% of spammers add a link there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you buy a car do you check out what the drivers (aka community) are like on forums and blogs?  I wonder what the difference is with computer hardware?</p>
<p>Joe, do you not remember the &#8216;Windows community&#8217; swarming the Microsoft Watch site with inflammatory and junk comments, they were all using fake and random names, even resorting to impersonating other users.  Did that make you think twice about installing Windows 7?</p>
<p>Is it only people who insult you, or is it people that act childish and loud?  I expect that all products and software have their devoted fans who are childish.  The difference was that you seemed to attack their weakened leader so you probably sparked some extra venom.  I think you agree or you wouldn&#8217;t have amended the post.</p>
<p>Dave, I think &gt; 2 links gets filtered.  Maybe because you use a link in your name, that probably counts as your link so anything in the post will get deleted/filtered.  Also, adding a website to your name might make the spam filter act differently for you since I expect 100% of spammers add a link there.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Lindhout</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-692</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Lindhout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-692</guid>
		<description>@Anonymous:

I&#039;ll vouch for Joe on the link issue. I could never get a comment passed eWeek that included a link, while others posted links, seemingly at will. That pissed me off. The rest of your argument is between you and Joe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anonymous:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll vouch for Joe on the link issue. I could never get a comment passed eWeek that included a link, while others posted links, seemingly at will. That pissed me off. The rest of your argument is between you and Joe.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://www.oddlytogether.com/2009/07/how-does-incremental-define-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joewilcox.com/?p=2079#comment-691</guid>
		<description>Mr. Anonymous, I had to approve your post, because the number of links tripped the spam filter. Apologies for the delay.

Could you please tell us who you are, and by doing so show everyone your integrity. It&#039;s easy to throw stones from behind a tree. Please, come out into the open?

I had forgotten about the Primax suit There is  an update in the post after I spoke with someone at the company, or what was supposed to be.

I detect some anger in your comment. What did I ever do to you? Maybe your gripe is not being heard at Microsoft Watch. I warned commenters repeatedly that the spam filter, over which I had no control, would junk comments with links. Obviously, I have control over my own site. Comments with links are held for approval, and I approved yours as soon as seeing the automatic e-mail about it.

My financial plans are my own. But I have no plans to put ads on this site. I haven&#039;t decided on how, or if, this site will generate revenue. But running banner or other splashy ads isn&#039;t it.

As for integrity, I don&#039;t see where I&#039;ve been boasting. So on what basis do you make the claim that I &quot;shouldn’t over-estimate [my own] own integrity?&quot;

I&#039;ll keep the Mac, of course. But I did feel like walking away, and for the reasons already stated.

You say it&#039;s 66 people out of millions (you counted the comments?) of Mac users. But those comments are the ones that can be so easily found on the Internet. They do reflect badly on the Mac community.

Again, I ask: Why hide? Maybe we can open a dialog that helps others and even brings understanding between us. I&#039;m offering a handshake. Will you accept it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Anonymous, I had to approve your post, because the number of links tripped the spam filter. Apologies for the delay.</p>
<p>Could you please tell us who you are, and by doing so show everyone your integrity. It&#8217;s easy to throw stones from behind a tree. Please, come out into the open?</p>
<p>I had forgotten about the Primax suit There is  an update in the post after I spoke with someone at the company, or what was supposed to be.</p>
<p>I detect some anger in your comment. What did I ever do to you? Maybe your gripe is not being heard at Microsoft Watch. I warned commenters repeatedly that the spam filter, over which I had no control, would junk comments with links. Obviously, I have control over my own site. Comments with links are held for approval, and I approved yours as soon as seeing the automatic e-mail about it.</p>
<p>My financial plans are my own. But I have no plans to put ads on this site. I haven&#8217;t decided on how, or if, this site will generate revenue. But running banner or other splashy ads isn&#8217;t it.</p>
<p>As for integrity, I don&#8217;t see where I&#8217;ve been boasting. So on what basis do you make the claim that I &#8220;shouldn’t over-estimate [my own] own integrity?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll keep the Mac, of course. But I did feel like walking away, and for the reasons already stated.</p>
<p>You say it&#8217;s 66 people out of millions (you counted the comments?) of Mac users. But those comments are the ones that can be so easily found on the Internet. They do reflect badly on the Mac community.</p>
<p>Again, I ask: Why hide? Maybe we can open a dialog that helps others and even brings understanding between us. I&#8217;m offering a handshake. Will you accept it?</p>
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